Monday has a very special guest Trish Uhl. Trish is the principal consultant at Owl’s Ledge, the founder of the Talent & Learning Analytics Leadership Forum and the creator of the Learning Systems Engineering framework. Trish and Brent talk about L&D as a profession, how it compares to the rest of the business world, and how automation is changing all industries.

  1.  Trish’s History
  2. L&D as a profession
  3. Automating historical data
  4. How does L&D affect the workforce
  5. The risk of standing still
  6. Data/AI
  7. First car trip to 5G

Links in the chat:

https://yjolt.org/lola-v-skadden-and-automation-legal-profession

https://www.wilsonlearning.com/wlw/products/csp

https://www.thelpi.org/resources/capability-map/

Watch the Playback:

https://www.crowdcast.io/e/120318

Picture: Mika Baumeister

Transcript below (Note: Transcript is in raw format with minimal editing)

Brent Schlenker 0:30
Good morning everybody. Welcome to TLDCast. It’s Monday morning. I hope you all had a fantastic weekend and you are ready to rock and roll the week because I know we’re gonna have a great conversation that’s going to fly by way too fast. And so we should probably jump into it really fast, which means I’m going to shorten up all of my announcements and introductions but first let me just say a quick hello to Trish you.

sitting in the sidelines, everybody.

Trish Uhl 1:02
Good morning, everybody. Good morning, everybody. How are you?

Brent Schlenker 1:07
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for hanging out with us today. Super excited for you to be here today. Because you are going to be the opening keynote for us at TL DC this year

Trish Uhl 1:21
to that.

Brent Schlenker 1:22
Yes. Lot. Lots of important conversations to have. And so we thought, you know what, we should probably start those conversations on to the cast. And we should also talk about doing a little bit of pre conversation or even prep stuff, what you and I talked about, and we’re going to do again, just like we did back in

which will be awesome. So with that as a little teaser, let me just throw out a couple really short announcements to everybody. I see so many wonderful people in the chat today. You guys are all fantastic. Thank you all for joining us today. Lots of names that have not seen in a while. So welcome Daniel welcome Rick

Joe Ganci. Good to see you here as well. So many of the regulars hanging out Timmy have not seen me in a while. Great to see you here as well. And all of all of my regular friends hanging out with us today. Craig, thank you for helping me with some audio this morning in being available to jump in. Appreciate that appreciate all of you guys. Hey, listen, we’ve got to DC 19 coming up very, very, very soon. We’re still super excited about it. Obviously, the closer we get, the more excited we get. So the more we would also like for you to invite all of your friends. So let’s start off the morning of the Monday morning. I feel like I haven’t done this in like weeks. Because I was traveling all last week if anybody was wondering,

but it turned out to be a great week as well. But one thing we haven’t done in a while is the simultaneous social sharing. And so if everybody will please join me in doing the simultaneous social share synchronized social sharing, I believe is what I’ve decided to call it, click that share button right at the top of the chat. And we’re going to all do this together. Because we have such an important conversation today that I need you all to share it with your friends. So click on that share button, you’ll get a share the event link popping up and you’ll get to choose whether you want to send this to Facebook, Google Plus LinkedIn or Twitter. Let’s go ahead and click Twitter, you’ll have another little dialog box that will pop up and that dialog box will have a link in it that goes directly to this live cast. And what you want to do is not forget to put in the hashtag. So you start off by just typing in the hashtag LD cast

and say something really nice about the show today and that you’re happy to be here and that you really love your network and all of your friends to be here because we are going to have a fantastic conversation today. So I am going to say join us for a fantastic

conversation with at what’s your official at twitter sign Trish

Trish Uhl 4:14
@trishuhl

that’s me

Brent Schlenker 4:23
right now with an exclamation point. And on the count of three tweets if you accidentally clicked tweet too soon. Oops, that’s okay. But for the rest of us 321 tweets. And that is synchronized social sharing. It’s not just the most fun event all morning. And it’s only going to get better from here. So let’s just talk a little bit about January 28. And 29th is teal, Dc 19. We also have a chat group 24 seven chat, we have a slack group that you can hang out with us in and I don’t have my text expand or open I don’t think to drop and but Craig’s here, and I’ll bet he’ll drop a link in Won’t you, Craig? Yes, I knew you will.

So join us in the slack group to continue this conversation is if we start to,

you know, run long like I have a tendency to do and we need more time to chat. We’ll jump into the chat room. And we can always talk more there later. There’s a lot to talk about. So let’s just go ahead and get started today and start off this conversation by learning a little bit more about tree shield Trish. I know, there can’t be anybody out there who doesn’t know who you are. But in case, they give us a little bit of a hooter issue.

Trish Uhl 5:44
Oh, my gosh,

Hi, everybody. A lot of people know me for a long time in actually helping to develop elite and high performing learning performance teams. So I’ve done a lot of work around the world with a bunch of different toolkits. A lot of people know me and pass line for different competency models and certifications. And so that whole paradigm, that whole idea of being able to, you know, develop rock star Learning and Performance professionals that are, you know, really able to help organizations drive towards strategic mission and vision that has evolved over time. So lately, my, my mindset and skill set and toolkit have evolved and specifically into a focus with analytics and artificial intelligence. And so how do we apply those tools and those technologies and techniques in a way that helps us bring the organization and the people we serve forward.

Brent Schlenker 6:45
Awesome, and I so desperately want to have you tell people about your path, how you got into this, like, way back into the whole it thing, but I’ve afraid we’ve got so much other stuff to talk about. And I think you covered it the last time you were here. So maybe we’ll just put that off. I always just find that to be fascinating because everybody comes into this industry from such a different angle. And your story is so awesome. Can we can we run through that really fast, just so people kind of get an idea of why I think it kind of sets the stage for the conversation we’re going to have. I mean, maybe just briefly, can we do that?

Trish Uhl 7:25
Yeah, I mean, my background in the 1990s is I worked for Xerox and actually worked as an IT person. And that was back in the wild days of the information technology and evolution of that particular profession. And so I came to the learning function, actually, through its function, and specifically in professional services. I was early in my career in law firms. And so that was awesome because performance really mattered. We had to really help people Excel, not only in serving clients but help in their career paths. And of course, the with legal and law firms and attorneys, that career path is actually been established for quite some time. And so I was really fortunate to be in an environment where not only did performance matter and career mattered, and there was a set career path. But everything was measurable, everything was quantifiable. So I, you know, did a lot of work both on the technology side, and, you know, again, for a lot of clients, including professional services, like LA and a lot of that has now come forward with the things that we did in the 1990s, the data storage and the data capture that we set up back then now being able to mind that for all of this rich information on the on the people side, and on the business side.

Brent Schlenker 8:39
Yeah, I think I think it makes such it’s, you’ve been through so many transitions and the whole transformation in the idea of transformation. And, and the current transformation that we’re in, it’s good for everybody, I think, to have that context because you’ve seen the transformation in very, very significant ways and throughout your career. And so when you start talking about the current transformation that we’re going through, I think it’s I just think it’s important that people understand that this isn’t just like your first transformation, that you’ve seen

a pattern through what you do. So let’s talk about the transformation of talent development, learning and development and just sort of set the stage for that.

Trish Uhl 9:28
Yeah, well, thanks for that. And I think to your point, one of the stories that I tell us about automation in the 1990s that of course, we’re going through a significant change that’s an understatement automation cycle right now. And one of the big differences in what’s happening with automation today is automation is happening, it’s not it’s not alone. And being one of the biggest drivers that’s happening not only within that the learning and talent development function, but also external to the learning and talent development function. It’s also one of many, many different trends, megatrends if you will, that’s affecting really everybody in the global workforce all around the world. And that’s really different than what it is that we’ve done before. In the 1990s, when it comes to automation. Automation in the 1990s was very much about efficiency was very much about efficiencies gained through leveraging technology for the first time, mid-1990s, when we got web browsers, midnight 1990s is when people started accessing the World Wide Web on the internet. Now, that used to be a thing separate from just the internet. And that was when we got email started coming into the office space in the 1995

in the mid-90s. And now we’ve got, you know, it’s not only the technology automation that’s coming in, but it’s globalization. It’s gig economy, it’s all of these different things that are disrupting not only what’s happening for us, and learning and talent development, or what’s happening with business models and industries around the world.

Brent Schlenker 11:00
Yeah, and it’s, it is,

it’s, it’s one of those things where I think what I really want to do today is help everybody see the

transfer me but just understand that it isn’t just one thing, right? Like, to your point, it’s like a function of little thing. Like, it’s the gig economy. It’s the tech it’s all of these little things, and maybe not necessarily little, but they’re all creating sort of the perfect storm. And they’re all happening at the same time. And they’re all impacting things in different ways. But yet, it feels like we’re being impacted by all of them. And until you see them in the aggregate, it’s easy to kind of, kind of brush them off individually on their own. But all together, it’s a pretty big deal for the businesses that we support. And so I guess the question is always, yeah, get it, you know, the transformation is out there, and things are changing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Brent, blah, blah, blah, why, why is it different now? And what are we going to do? What can we do?

Trish Uhl 12:14
It’s a great question. So here’s, here’s kind of an idea. Again, I like to go back to legal because most people around the world have some understanding of like an attorney does, or some perception of what an attorney does to some to some degree. And we certainly do here in the United States when it comes to selling things legal. So we don’t need to know the granular specifics that we know that number one that’s a licensed profession, all around the world, you can’t perform as an attorney without not only having the appropriate education, but also being fully qualified by being licensed by a governing authority within whatever jurisdiction you’re in, right. So even here in the United States, people can’t practice more on last you are actually you’ve passed the bar, not on a national level, but on a state level. So somebody who’s an attorney who’s licensed to practice here, as an example, in the state of Illinois can’t just pack up shop one day and go practice law in the state of New York, they would have to go through that qualification process again. And so it’s a very specialized industry and so many as we can see in film, and perhaps in you know, movies and TV shows, and, and perhaps in our own experiences, it’s usually a very highly paid profession. And it’s considered a profession rather than an occupation. And the reason why I like to use law as an example is we can compare like, kind of some of the things that transformed it in the 1990s versus some of the things that are transforming it now, and how does that impact us on the learning and talent development side? So does that sound like a pretty good place to start?

Brent Schlenker 13:56
That sounds like a great place to start. I think you’re right. I think it’s a great industry to hit up because there are a lot of parallels that can be made with it, and other industries as well,

Trish Uhl 14:07
exactly. So what’s happening with that industry is, it’s imploding and it’s not the only one on the planet that’s imploding. Because of all of these different factors, like the things that you were just talking about what it has to do with the gig economy, it has to do with technology, it has to do with automation, and has to do with a number of these different factors that are really causing pressure on the legal industry. So to give you an example, back in the 1990s, one of the first things that happened was clients when we were looking at technology coming in, and it was, again, it was a much smaller wave of automation. So it was primarily focused on technology changing the business process. But it also changed the relationship between the law firms and their clients. So before the 1990s, and before computer automation that came into the United States in the 1990s, and in other industrialized country trees around the world. Before that, the winter law firm got a client was usually at the country club, it was relationship driven, it was somebody that you knew. And once a month firm, got a client, that client took all of their legal services to that law firm. And it was just a factor that was just a standard. So they didn’t really have to hide, right, they didn’t have to, you know, so the minute that somebody came in, they might come in through a merger and acquisition. But they would stay and bring in, you know, any challenges that they needed with litigation or environment, bourbon usually pick one firm in that, from what service all of their legal needs that happened in the 1990s was that suddenly clients started having visibility through the then new world wide web of being able to find other law firms in other parts of the country that would offer competitive services,

Brent Schlenker 15:56
and then

then leads us to

today, right with the change and who gets to do who can do and how do we do some of that work that gets done in a legal office?

Trish Uhl 16:16
Well, exactly. So back then it didn’t really change the work and unable to work great. So we went from law libraries and legal research being done in law libraries, to the first time that paralegals and Associates, which are kind of newer attorneys in that career path, it gave them an opportunity to be able to do a lot of legal research online versus having to access a physical space in a physical library. So it changed some work practices. But it didn’t change the nature of the work. And now what’s happening in law to your point plant is there was actually a legal decision, there was a court ruling that happened earlier this year here in the United States that suddenly took all of the tasks or a significant number of tasks that attorneys traditionally do, and bill, for now, think about that for a moment. Because law firms make money, they make money by the almighty billable hour way. And they literally serve larger law firms here in the United States, charging 10-minute increments. So they trade time for money, right. So the more time that a legal team spans on your case and matter as a client, the more money that law firm is going to me. So what’s happened is, they know in the legal industry, because of this court ruling from earlier this year, that more than 60% of the tasks that are usually build for by a legal professional, can now be built by a nonlegal professional, including technology.

So clients over the next year, are going to continue to be able to actually be got a bunch of what they used to have to pay for illegal, the high rates of the legal professional for much of that work that went into those billable hours, is now going to be available at a much lower price point, either through the automation of technology and, or through access to other human beings that charge a whole lot less money, and they will only pay the premium pricing for legal expertise for the tasks that remain that the courts have decided have to be conducted by a legal professional, which is a much smaller percentage than what it is that law firms traditionally bill for.

Brent Schlenker 18:38
And that and that changes a lot of things, right. I mean, I think as that automation steps in and handles a lot of the work that that law firm used to be able to build, you know, thousands of hours of somebody’s time, or a collection of people’s time in a law library, you know, looking through old books case, you know, law and all of that. And then it switches online. And that’s sped things up a lot, so they couldn’t build as much but they’re still building to get that work done, the work is just able to be done a lot more quickly. And now, when you’re going to have automation and systems doing a lot of that work based on inputs that you put in, and it will be able to crunch hundreds of years of case law against what you’re asking for in a matter of hours, as opposed to weeks or months. That’s what’s significant in the cost that law firms going to make, but also in how much it costs to actually go to court for somebody. Right. And so it just kind of changes everything,

Trish Uhl 19:51
it changes it to second through and Mike Simon is actually Mike Simon’s in the chat room. Hey, Mike. So Mike actually wrote so many is an attorney friend of mine. We used to work at one of the largest law firms back in the day. And Mike and some of his and his co-authors actually wrote the first article online. What are the implications of this court ruling that happened earlier this year? And is it that people can find that because I know you’ve published it in the Yale it’s right for the technology and legal journal. And I think what’s really interesting about that, even if you don’t work in legal is that you can take a look, all of us. Yeah, and the yellow Journal of technology

Brent Schlenker 20:35
open, anybody can go look at one of those hundred thousand dollars a month.

Trish Uhl 20:40
Joe? You can. It’s public, it’s public, and you’ll see Michael Simon’s name. Yeah, perfect. Thanks, Mike. And what’s significant about that is, is to just wrap our heads around, we’re taking this very venerable profession that is suddenly vulnerable, and its business model because now it’s opened it out that this work can be done by so many different types of entities, it’s not a monopolized by people that are legal professionals anymore, or at least a big chunk of it isn’t anymore. And so then what does that mean, on the learning and talent development side, it means that you now have a business model that is broken, it means that you have a workforce of highly paid professionals that have invested an awful lot of time and money and education into education and experience in order to be at that point in time in their careers. And you have now disrupted their career path, right, because if only people in other seems technology can do the work because people outsourcing is another big thing that’s happening and legal right now, right. It’s it’s not being it doesn’t have to be done by an in-house staff anymore. And again, it can go to a low wage workforce anywhere in the world. So there’s gig economy, there’s an idea about the gig economy, scaling up the resources that you need, at a low price point, and then letting them go when it is that you don’t need them anymore. Right. So, it’s much more project-based and skill based, rather than taking in that kind of overhead and Monique’s and his co-authors article and yell and again, right you’re right. It’s absolutely open. And it’s absolutely free. You can see step by step how it is in what Mike and team have laid out how that profession is being disrupted. What are the implications and at the very end of the article is a whole listing of, well if attorneys need to do this work on a regular basis anymore? And they have to do this other work than whatever skills and competencies that they need in order to transition in order to be able to implement and execute against the new business model. And that’s where we come in, right. So broken business model means new business model means new operations, which means workforce transformation, because your people used to do this and how they want to do this, then we’re the ones that help them figure out how to do that.

Brent Schlenker 23:06
And it’s interesting because it was like before you even started talking to me about all of the law stuff and all of the different things that are going to change, you know, the beginning of the year. Last year, whenever we first started chatting about it. I even started recognizing and noticing more of our colleagues in l&d working for law firms. Like a big law firms employing training departments. And for the longest time, I think the legal teams and may correct me if I’m wrong, maybe I just didn’t, I wasn’t connected to the right people. But it felt like they got their continuing education and whatnot elsewhere, either through universities and things like that. They I rarely heard of a colleague of mine saying, Yeah, I’m a training professional. And I work specifically for a law firm, and I’m the only training person there or I’m a team of trainers, and we’re doing e-learning or whatever, inside a law firm. It just I didn’t run into that those types of jobs at all. And now it seems to be a significant part of large training companies, the staff is training professionals

Trish Uhl 24:15
like a printer thing to point because actually continuing legal education in some states wasn’t a requirement until as of late, like when within the past, like Wendy, to become a requirement here in Illinois. It wasn’t that long ago, it was just a handful of years ago that they had to collect continuing legal education. And you’re right, Brent, they followed a lot of law firms followed for the CLA requirements, but many other professional services firms do so like public accounting. So they have to certify the CP, right for the CPA as they have to amass every three years enough CPU credits in order to maintain their CPA licenses within an accounting firm. And some were like they used to, they used to go out and say, Okay, our training department is an order taker, here’s what it is that we need, well, you know, I’d like my people to be better at managing their project work. So let’s go, you know, partner with whatever University and bring that kind of curricula in to the organization, make sure it meets the continuing education requirements, either for public accounting, or a law firm, or whatever your organization requires for people to maintain that license that qualification and then basically, like, goes through, you know, that particular material with a university and it was like, Okay, well, to what end or people measure any better at managing projects or doing anything after that it was basically a box check. It was like, Okay, well, that net CPU requirement, that means these people can now we certify, and everything is good to go. And so before there were, and again, going back to the 1990s and automation and technology and those about efficiency training was very much has been very much our roots are in being a cost center, we are unnecessary or have been an unnecessary operating expense, right. Where and when you’re a cost center, the whole game is to figure out how to reduce costs, right? That’s it, that’s all leadership is interested in. And that’s what we should be interested in is, efficiency is how to do cost reduction. Now, this animation, the 1990s, and that’s why our oils were very different in those types of professional services environments, including law firms, and that’s why it’s changing now. Because what’s happening now is it’s about efficacy, not about efficiency. efficacy means these law firms know that if they don’t change the business model, if they don’t get the new operating model, right. And if they can’t transform their workforce, along with transforming their business, that they’re out of business in a very short amount of time, in a very short amount of time. And that’s an illustration of what’s happening with our industries around the world. I mean,

my goodness is a shaking a statement something right like you can shake a stick at a particular industry in the world right now, that’s not being significantly disrupted by these external pressures that are happening not just within the organization, but external to it within their industry. all sectors globally, everywhere.

Brent Schlenker 27:27
Well, and that’s what so that ends up being why we’re important. But I still end up having conversations with folks. And I think it just because we’re still sort of on the front end of this, yes, I think it’s impacting everywhere. But I think certain organizations are, are choosing to either keep their heads in the sand and kind of ignore it. And just think that will change will just happen as the change happens. And we won’t really worry about it too much right now, it will just be business as usual. But for the most part, it feels like people are still telling me it’s, that’s like 10 years away, or 15 years away, or we’re not really too concerned about that in our industry. Like, we’re different, we’re special. And I always just kind of go, okay, because I don’t really I’m not really ready to start having arguments with people yet. But I always think in the back of my mind, wow, they’re in for a really rude awakening when it really does land in their lap, and they’re not going to know what to do, and they’re not gonna be ready,

Trish Uhl 28:30
right? So we’ve got kind of this fear of obsolescence, those kinds of the continuum, right, so on one end of the continuum is the sphere of obsolescence for everybody, not just many of us in the learning profession, and learning and talent development people in every type of organization, every type of business around the world, there’s this field of optimized sense. But then there’s also on the other end of the continuum denial, there’s a lot of denials that’s going on. And in between, there are simply business leaders, they do not know what to do. And, and I mean that from people capability development, they know they have the business impact analyses, they know what the stakes are, then understand the way and what they need to do with the organization. And they know that they need to bring their people with them, they don’t know how it is that we can help them do that. And really helping them do that is now cranking out a bunch of content. It’s not by putting together a whole ton of E-learning modules. It’s not by standing up and doing cool stuff, and engagement studies and virtual instructor. But those things are good. And they can be frustrated as part of a larger development cycle and transformation cycle. But they don’t work in isolation in order to be able to transform from this to that. And that is what we and learning and talent development need to be able to do. And if we’re not focused on how, what it is that we do today, and how we contribute to helping an entire workforce in a brand new business model in a new operating environment, move from this to that you’re focused on the wrong things, you’re focused on the wrong things.

Brent Schlenker 30:11
Yeah, and I think this is where the frustration for people that I know in our industry come comes from, is that they look to the business for the business to be able to say what that is, right, if we’re going to move from this to that, we first have to define what that is. And I think the transformation for some of these companies, again, like I said, with them, kind of ignoring it, they don’t know what that is yet. And I’m wondering how we can help them figure out what that future looks like, what the that is so so that we can then help them get from this to that, like I am part of our job is part of our solution of adding value, helping them to see what that is,

Trish Uhl 30:58
I mean, who you going to work for if you don’t?

chuckle

non-negotiable, it’s not optional. And the danger of that in

many organization is the moving in this direction,

how to better leverage me and I got, okay, step up, put on your big girl pants and go get a minute and getting the game step up. And, and if that’s not the right opportunity, and that’s not the right organization to be doing that. And, and one of the things that everybody needs to consider is how is that sustainable to you making a living, I don’t mean your career growth, I mean, you make a living because he was the other challenge. And all of this, if you’re in an organization right now, where you truly can’t make headway and being able to help them find a way in being able to provide value faster, more value, faster value defined by them, not by you, if you and an opportunity right now that that isn’t available to you, and you really don’t see that you’re going to be able to make headway and getting that done over the next year or so then the question you have to ask yourself is what’s the risk of staying because he used to be that we would look at it and be like, All right, good job. And I have a paycheck. And I’m just gonna kind of go along with this until something else happens when risking that organization literally closing its doors, and I’m not trying to be Chicken Little and overly dramatic here are going to be closing their doors, training departments and learning departments are going to be made redundant period, it’s going to happen within the next two years. That is what’s going to happen, it’s already been happening, it’s going to continue to escalate, we’ve got more and more stuff that’s coming in, including populations on the other side of a lawyer who can do our job as well, if not better than sentiment going to be online, right, that are going to be available online. And people are going to have visibility into being able to,

which is going to put a lot of pressure on competition, that if we can add that value, go find somebody else who does, who does because it’s all about protecting, it’s about protecting the business. And the challenge is the challenge with the risk is not just losing the current job if entering the workforce, and being able to get back in again when you don’t have the skills or experience in order to be able to provide that value to another organization down the line. And that’s a big risk. That’s a big problem.

Brent Schlenker 33:31
Yeah, Marco sums it up well, with the risk of standing still. And it’s sadly sort of the history of learning and development, though, is that as people talk about, we need to not be order takers, right. But traditionally, that’s what our industry was. So I would venture to guess that there are a lot of folks in our industry that aren’t the type aren’t the personality type that are comfortable stepping up, like you say, putting on the big girl Big Boy pants and stepping into the executives offices and say, here’s how we can help you move to this next level, or to see what’s happening in the future. And we can help you get there. That is a skill set that I think is lacking severely across the board in our industry is am I am I being overly dramatic,

Trish Uhl 34:34
I think it’s, it’s lacking in you know, we-we all as human beings, and there’s so much research that will really, really good at kind of ducking our heads and kind of going along with the flow when things seem like they’re okay. Right, like, and so that’s part of the challenge that I see right now, in our industry is we’re looking internal to our industry, we’re looking at a lot of organizations that have sort of this, this market for a really long time, we’re going to the expos, we’re going to the sessions. And a lot of the agenda is that a lot of these conferences, quite frankly, and a lot of the academic institutions, and so on and so forth. This business, as usual, let’s figure out how to create content better, and maybe take a look at measurement and evaluation, and maybe take a look at some of the new technologies that are available, right. And it seems like things are business as usual. And that familiarity is kind of loaning us into a false sense of security. It’s a false sense of security, I can show you more reports and more forecasts and more information about this industry specifically, where the disruption is going to come from, and how it’s going to happen. And that’s part of a lot of what we’re going to talk about in Phoenix in the in the keynote that would scare the pants off of you. I mean, there have been Ellis that have been watching just emailing and management systems and on-demand training in North America alone, that can tell you right now that we’ve been at a negative 5% growth rate for a long time. And it’s it’s billions of dollars that are falling out of that industry on a daily basis. And North America right now is and has been traditionally the largest consumers of that technology. And the problem is, if the valuation of learning of learning management systems and traditional, you know, digital technologies in the learning space is losing money in the industry, it’s going to be worth half evaluation, its peak was in 2016, it’s going to be reduced a half of what it was in 2016 by 2021

there, there’s there’s, I don’t know any bigger, you know, form Do you guys think it’s not, it’s not sustainable, the old working ways are not sustainable. So Jonathan brought up a really good point in the in the chat room, and that is got the message ready to go, Trish, I need to do my day job. And now you know, I gotta do this, how do I do those things in how do I do those things in parallel. And that’s where it isn’t. We did some good roadmaps and we need some better shortcuts, and being able to get those things and being able to get those things done. But I think the very first thing that you can do is to sit down and look at the activities that you do on a regular basis, like, what do you-you know, what’s in your life in the current role that you’re in and just do an honest assessment, you know, even at just a high level and say, Okay, here are the things that I do on a regular basis. And Hayley, the things that are already now we’re going to be automated here, the things that I now do not require me that could be automated by technology, or automated by another low wage workforce from somewhere else in the world, or even an intern that we could get from a university. But taking a look at that assessment. And then just getting kind of clear on where the disruption for you personally is coming from, we can talk more in a bit here about, you know, how do you then mitigate that, right? How do you then plan to develop new skills, get access to new mindset, new skill set, new toolset, be able to continue to get your work done, like Jonathan was just talking about in the chat, and still be able to, you know, both yourself and get ready for the wave tsunami that’s coming, or the poverty here, really, yeah, for sure. And as we get

Brent Schlenker 38:25
closer about, you know, 19 minutes before the top of the hour, according to my clock. And I wanted to talk a little bit about the tech side that is causing a lot of this, and that, and that is that the sort of clustered conversation around data, data, analytics, Ai, that kind of stuff, we have a tendency to have conversations around those all as a group sort of a thing. And so let’s just make sure we touch on that just a little bit for folks so that they, so we can get a little bit more specific around that,

Trish Uhl 39:00
I want you to think about all those individual technologies as puzzle pieces, right. And, and one of the things that I’ve been working on is trying to get enough time to, like, write more about this stuff, and more of an integrated, comprehensive way instead of, you know, kind of rattling my chains, and, you know, jumping up and down on Twitter, wish me luck.

But, you know, the thing is, is if you want you to think about it, okay, so let me give you another analogy. Let me give you another quick analogy. So the very first car trip that happened, right, the very first car automobile that drove San Francisco in the United States to New York, happened in 1903, right. So that was the first order trip. And think about that, think about the lack of infrastructure that was available there. At that time, they hadn’t, you know, how did them drive that car across the country, whenever, is just literally wagon paths, and wagon trails, and cow paths, and no path and all that kind of stuff through mountain passes. And just think about all the states that are in between there, and the different types of, you know, environments that they would have to cross. So we didn’t actually, we didn’t actually start getting the first highways until route 66 in the 1920s. So you’re talking like 20 some odd years later, is when there began the beginnings of infrastructure to be able to support this then-new technology called the automobile. And I just saw actually, they posted somebody posted on Twitter the other day, the very first advertisement ever in the history of the little for a car actually talked about, you know, you can, you can, you should get an automobile because then you don’t have to deal with the smell of the horse and dealing with this animal, right. So is this like in the people that had horse and buggies and coaches and stagecoaches were like when the mourners over this, because of here was this, you know, new technologies, automobiles that were coming in on their turf, and telling people that their, you know, their solution stank, and that they should pick this other method. And there wasn’t even infrastructure yet to support this new technology, right. So what 66 come into play in about the 19 becomes like 1927, I mean, it wasn’t until the 1950s that we actually got the interstate highways here. And in that it states and then, you know, think about that. So we had kind of these fits and starts being able to support this new technology. And now I was thinking about this-this morning, in the 1980s, I remember driving up the interstate from where I lived in New Jersey at the time I was I was visiting people up in friends of mine, and Nantucket, which is an island off the coast of the state of Massachusetts. And, and in driving to tuck it in the 1980s, there wasn’t even good signage to tell you as I was driving my vehicle and was watching my class, you know, go towards for empty, there wasn’t even good signage on the highways in the 1980s, the late 1980s to tell me if I got off at this particular exit, I would be able to be successful in finding a gas station if you’re lot that now in the United States, we’re really lucky. There are all kinds of signage all over the place. So we have the technology, the automobile, far more sophisticated now than it was in 1903 easier have a ride in the vehicle itself. Since that vehicle that crosses from San Francisco to New York in 1903, we’ve got the infrastructure, we’ve got all these towns that came up around this infrastructure to support gas stations, and mechanics and all the rest of it. But the superhighways, the interstates are what really gave us the mobility to really be able to access that kind of technology. If you take that analogy. That’s exactly what we’ve now done with computerization,

five j, the interstate highway that’s going to ignite all of this, all of those little touch points to be able to move down to get from San Francisco to New York. And the equivalent is IoT is all the Internet of Things devices, right? Literally, everything, our clothing, our food, our bodies our person, our environments are going to be really besieged with IoT devices in all sorts of shapes and forms within the next 18 months. But we’re all going to be data points that are all going to be connected with this overarching five G’s superhighway network. When that happens, artificial intelligence and machine learning specifically, are going to be processing the data that these different IoT devices connected to each other on 5g are going to be able to process at scale, that means not only Is everything going to be amazing data, that means that everything is going to be quantifiable, it means that everything is going to be available in our ambient environment in our surrounding environment, in order to be able to be tapped into, there’s not anything that we will be able to know about a physical object, where it came from, where it was, where it’s going to next, including us as human beings. And if you take that analogy 1903 up to superhighways now right in our physical space, and think about that in cyberspace, that’s what’s going to happen over the next 18 over the next 18 months. And that’s just going to be the inception point, that’s just going to be the Flashpoint. And so the stage coaches, all of the railroads, all of the people that got angry, and the 1950s when this super high res came into play because it was disrupting their markets in their businesses. That’s what’s happening now in cyberspace. And in the workplace, we won’t have to create surveys and all these types of assessment instruments will have new instrumentation in the learning and talent development function that’s going to allow us to understand people capability at or near real time, and be able to nudge their behavior in very specific ways. That’s what’s happening. And we’re 18 months from it.

Brent Schlenker 45:12
Yeah, and it’s and it’s going to, it’s going to mean that we don’t have to do assessments anymore. Because every everything that’s being done is going to constantly be being assessed with all of that data. And, and then people are going to, they’re going to get that nudge and say, Oh, you should do it this way. Or, oh, maybe you need a little bit more knowledge in this space. And they’re just going to get pinged and we won’t be the intermediary anymore, we will be displaced because it’s just going to be part of the work if it’s even a human being doing the work,

Trish Uhl 45:44
right, exactly, and that that’s exactly happening now. So we can see those 1903 happenings in our environment, I would say, actually, that route 66, we can see what’s happening with the technology. Now, with the productivity tools, they’ve already embedded those types of algorithms. So then I job is to, number one, have an awareness that these things are a happening number to understand the implications of it. Because if organizations are desperate, and they are to transform and reposition their workforces, in the new directions, they’re going to use whatever means possible in order to protect the business in order to be able to get that done. And if we’re not providing that value, then they’re going to turn to the people and are the technologies that are going to do it. And these technologies used in combination together. So it’s not any one thing. It’s then it’s AI, 5g, IoT algorithms embedded in your anybody know the algorithms embedded in the workflow and embedded in the productivity tools. It’s using those things in concert and those devices that are been that Ambien data to be able to influence people’s decisions and their behavior in that moment of made, it’s

that we need to learn how to master or be mastered by it. That’s, that’s what the challenges

Brent Schlenker 47:09
Yeah, and I think that’s a fantastic place for us to just take pause momentarily. We’ve got about 10 minutes left

today. And there are a couple questions in here. But they’re both very similar. And you touched on this, and I think we’re at that point where having this conversation is important. Understanding the history understanding that this is all going to happen. And like you mentioned it early on in the conversation. I can’t remember who dropped it into the chat. Maybe it was Jonathan.

Somebody mentioning. Okay, great. I’m all in I get it. I hear you, Trish. It’s all good. You know, what can we do? What do we do next? And both of these questions in the question section kind of relate to that. So let me ask both of them. And then in our remaining time, you know, we can talk about how to answer them. And I don’t think we’re going to be able to answer them today. But we can, obviously, we’re going to be able to talk about it a lot more at

so if people want to have these conversations as a group of professionals with Trish, please, please, please look into registering and getting those two days in Phoenix happening for you. But anyway, here are the questions. How do we align with the changes Trish describes when people we work with our peers may be resistant to change or can’t see the consequences? That’s one we’re going to hit two questions at the same time here. So the other question from Jonathan is how can we know which skills to pursue our limited time and brain space? And we talked a little bit about that, I think, but they also want to, you know, his question is more about us, what do we do? How do we figure all that stuff out? The first question is more about how do we help others? I think if I were to kind of sum up

Trish Uhl 48:53
with the environment that’s not necessarily conducive to us changing, right, right, you know, and then how do we also try to how do we also try to bring other people along? So let me go with Jonathan’s question first, because that’s a little bit easier. And if I may, can I rely on your super cool curation skills here, because I’m going to give you a website to go to in just a moment if you wouldn’t mind snagging it, and bringing a link into the chat room be awesome. So and this is this is we’re gonna we depend point going to talk about this more with to DC and not just talk about it, but actually actively put it into practice. So we’re going to do Countdown to the conference, and it’s only for people registering for to DC who are actually coming to the contracts, we’re going to take what I’m about to give you and actually actively work together in order to be able to figure out how to close the gaps. So the first thing is, Jonathan, to your point, how do I know what skills to focus on, let me give you a free assessment tool. So this is work that a bunch of us just a been a glowing global steering committee with the learning process performance Institute out of the UK. And we just did a major refresh on the LP AI capability map. And if you go out to the LP AI capability map website, which Craig, if you can find that for us real quick, that be awesome. If you go out to that website, you can go ahead and actually assess yourself against all the capabilities, skills and competencies that we included in the refresh map. And then we’ll give you a gap report that will basically give you a gap report that will help frame up here areas, you know, it to find here, the capabilities that you need. And then here, the areas that you want to bet you want to really work on. And again, it’s totally it’s totally free. And as a matter of fact, this is the software me so you’ll also be helping us out from the global steering team, we actually just had a release in India. So GS K, Glaxo Smith, Klein, Sunder Rama john tried and actually just did a release of this in India, we’re taking it around the world with venom it out with learning professionals. And what we’re going to use your data for in the aggregate on the backend is to be able to tweak the model so that we can do actually a bigger launch in the first quarter next year out of London. But it’s free, and it always will be free, which is one of the major reasons why it is that I volunteered my time in order to in order to be able to identify specifically, what are the new capabilities, what are the new skills, and what are the new competencies that we need in order to be able to out-think outsmart and outperform and, and, again, we’ll use that tool an awful lot with registered attendees for to DC 19 going into the conference so that you can then leverage the conference to use that as an opportunity to develop your skills in a very messy, you know, methodical way and, and really have an understanding of your outcomes as far as changing, you know, this is always true anytime that we have growth. So going to the second question, anytime that we have growth, growth opportunity, we’re oftentimes in an environment whether its family or friends, or our community, or in a workplace where it is we’re in a system that isn’t conducive to us changing, it’s not necessarily supportive of us changing. And that’s not meant to be derogatory, such as the nature of systems, if you look at systems theory, or look at systems thinking systems are living dynamic thing was just like, I still say, human beings and systems have a self-preservation element to them, they all do. So that’s why it can be really hard in organizations and things have to oftentimes get worse before they get better. Or at least we think so we’ve been, we’ve been taught that, and I’m going to give you a different tool in just a moment to kind of take a different slant to that. So first of all, know that that’s okay, know, that that’s, you know, the how systems work systems exist in order to preserve the system and you have to fight to expect that you’re going to be, you know, against the time for a little bit as a basic, you’re trying to bring things forward that has nothing to do with you personally, that has to do with kind of the way that things work. And so one of the things that we can do with that is we oftentimes have been taught a break-fix mindset, we’re looking for broken things, this is why we performance manage things this is why we look for gaps in ourselves is why we look for gaps and other people and processes can we can flip that around. And I want you to take a look at David Cooper writer. So David Cooper writer is the one who came up with appreciative inquiry back in the late 1970s, and appreciative inquiry is all about strength, it’s all about looking at what are the things that are happening right now, you right now in the organization that you serve, with the people that you work with, that are going well. And instead of trying to fix the broken things that first how do you start to strengthen the things that are already doing really, really well, because we can make as many games if not more, taking more as that appreciative inquiry approach, then we can look for broken things. Because when we look for broken things, we find more things to fix. And if we look for awesome things that are already a cake, like really, really working, that we can find more ways of being able to build that out

Brent Schlenker 54:38
killing up the good things I always hated the annual review process where they would say, you know, Brent, you’re not really good at this, you’re not really good at that, let’s start spending more time getting better at those things. And it’s like, really,

Trish Uhl 54:55
you know why

Brent Schlenker 55:01
that they’re really good at and can scale up and be awesome at those things. Instead of wasting their time, being miserable, trying to fix the things that they’re bad at for a reason.

Trish Uhl 55:12
And then we can put those things together

that we want to work on and have a development plan. But here’s the trick, you can put these things together from both of those questions. If you take the capability map, and even have your whole team go ahead and do their own individual assessments, everybody’s going to come up with different strains. So now, how do you then work with each other now as a group, now you’ve got to win it, being able to come together and say, you know, hey, this and who really strong in these other things, and that’s an area that I need to improve on, how can you help me and I can help you, right? And how do you then do that together in a group and be able to together be stronger, that’s a much more powerful conversation, then, hey, that’s where the kind of socks and the total terrible things that

come together and actually, you know, really look at ways that we can coordinate and go deep with our own practice and in our own group, and really rock, you know, really rock things out?

Brent Schlenker 56:15
Yeah, super psyched about that Trish, thanks so much for hanging out with us today. This was as awesome as I was expecting. I hope everybody got their minds blown today.

Trish Uhl 56:26
Well, thanks so much for having me here for inviting me back to DC and for doing the opening keynote this year. I am super excited to DC 2019. And I’m really looking forward to seeing people in Phoenix and spending a lot more time around this. So I appreciate everybody. So I’ll see you on Twitter and on LinkedIn and all the different socials.

Brent Schlenker 56:49
Absolutely, absolutely. And I just also want to say thanks again for agreeing to keynote and to come out and to actually just share this message. You know, you and I have been talking about this for a long time. And I just I’ve always kind of thought, I’m not sure if our in people are ready to hear this message yet. But as you and I talked about before, 2019, I think is the time I think everybody is finally ready. I think everything is good to go. I think it can be a really positive conversation. Whereas maybe a year ago or two years ago, I think it would have been a very scary negative conversation. But I think the realities are all pretty,

you know,

visible to everybody now. And I think we can move very quickly into solution space, you know, after clarifying it, and which I’m hoping we at TLC as a whole in general as a community can come together and be leaders as a community moving forward and help the rest of the industry to see what it is that can be done and what needs to be done across the board. So really super excited about it. Looking forward to it. Okay, awesome. Alright, everybody, I’m going to go into close out your video. Trish, thank you so much again. And don’t forget everybody. We’re going to be hanging out and talking with Trish a lot more often. So the closer we get, the more conversations we’re going to have. So be sure to stick around. So anyway, thank you so much. Trish will talk to you later.

Trish Uhl 58:15
Bye.

Brent Schlenker 58:18
And oh yeah, Trish. Sorry. I closed your video before I said, Hey, drop your Twitter hashtag into the chat and tell everybody how they can get ahold of you. LinkedIn, Facebook, wherever you tend to hang out most. If you want people to follow you drop all that stuff in there. Thanks so much, everybody for hanging out today. Again, super excited about today. What a great way to kick off the week after me being gone for most of last week. Super, super excited to get into DLD cast again. This week, got a lot of work to do a lot of catching up to do and other projects, but this is a ton of fun. But anyway, thank you all so much for hanging out today. Please get registered for TL dc 19 at to dec 19 dot com. You can get more information there. Join us in the slack group. If you have questions. If you have concerns if you’re not too sure what to expect or how to have these types of conversations with your peers. Again, that is why we’re here is whitey LDC exists. We want to help all of you get better at the work that you do in training and learning and development. No matter what aspect whatever angle it is that you are a part of this industry, whether you’re an E-learning developer designer, whether you feel like just an instructional designer, whether you’re a manager, whether you’re new to the training role, or you’ve been in it for decades, doesn’t matter. All of these changes. everything that’s happening is actually really exciting. And I think it is going to be a really, really fun next 10, 1520

years to be in this industry. And I want us all to kind of enjoy this ride together. So deal dc 19 is going to be a turning point for all of us and I’m really really looking forward to all of your you helping us make that happen. But before we can do that you all need to get out there today and train somebody and also don’t forget to learn something new.

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